Traveller-digest      Friday, October 8 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1173



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Firing two guns at once
Re: Annic Nova (longish)
Re: Population Growth (was Annic Nova)
Re: Annic Nova
Re: Beware of the Stobor (was: Re: Annic Nova)
Re: Annic Nova 
Re: Annic Nova (canon) 
Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)
Re: Firing two guns at once
Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)
Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)
RE: Annic Nova
Re: Annic Nova 
Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)
Re: Annic Nova
Re: Firing two guns at once
Now *This* Is Wild
RE: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)
Re: Missing TMLer?
Re: Firing two guns at once
Re: The Gangsta Shooting Stance
Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)
Re: Annic Nova (longish)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:37:59 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

In a message dated 10/8/99 4:56:23 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 
johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu writes:

<< Note:  As a player, I will often change magazines when I'm getting
 > _close_ to running dry, especially if there's a short lull in the
 > firefight (such as when the enemy is reloading).
 
 Which is also proper RL firefight discipline, as well.
  >>

I was taught to tactically reload my revolver as well in the Police Academy 
by one of the instructors when I asked him. Since you only get 6 shots, this 
IS a consideration...

 You fire two shots, break open the weapon (open the cylinder), and use the 
ejector rod to raise the cartridges PARTIALLY. You then use your off hand to 
MANUALLY remove the two empties and then insert two fresh cartridges. You 
then close the cylinder and fire two more rounds, and then repeat the 
procedure. This is a pain in the A**, but it does allow you to continually 
fire a revolver with a full cylinder, and if you are charged, you still have 
four more shots in reserve...

If you have only one weapon, this is a good method, since otherwise topping 
off a revolver meant dumping entire cylinder onto the ground (empties and 
unfired both). You rapidly ran out of ammo, especially as my gunbelt carried 
only two dump pouches (reloads). I cheated and carried Bianchi speedstrips 
and HKS speedloaders in my pockets (these weren't authorized in '86). This is 
also how the "New York" reload was invented (you could carry a second weapon 
under your uniform, but no speedloaders - go figure); you reloaded by 
switching weapons...

Ob Trav: How many of your characters take Auto pistol instead of revolver for 
this reason?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:39:45 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Annic Nova (longish)

In a message dated 10/8/99 4:58:56 PM !!!First Boot!!!, cberry@cinenet.net 
writes:

<< And with active control
 and constant .1 g thrust,  >>

actually 24 hours thrust (the fuel capacity of the two pinnaces), but I agree 
with you...

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:41:52 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Population Growth (was Annic Nova)

In a message dated 10/8/99 5:20:31 PM !!!First Boot!!!, 
Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk writes:

<< Hmmm, I know a couple of ladies who wouldn't have a problem with that! >>

they'll change their minds when they realize that they have to "share", 
though the lucky males won't mind...:-)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 08:59:39 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

In mail you write:

> Actually, I was thinking of an almost Edenic environment (at least in the
> locality of the original colony) as I would have thought 20 odd teenagers
> would pretty much need that to survive.  (I'm basically imagining they have
> no experience of living outside their usual technological lifestyles; and
> very little tools and technology to hand anyway - they're weren't supposed
> to be or expecting to be here: misjump, adult supervisors dead, no chance
> of rescue.)

Depends. I know that in high school we got at least "exposed" to
survival skills in the form of a couple of days in PE listening to an
instructor from the "nearby" Air Force Survival School.

And then there's "Boy Scouts" or the equivalent.

> I would guess that anything *but* an ideal garden type environment would be
> pretty lethal under those conditions.  Particulary for what is essentially
> an unorganized bunch of school children.  What I was interested in was what
> kind of society might have developed after a few generations.

You can survive a long time in places that aren't all *that* Edenish if
you know some fairly *simple* survival skills. Like how to test food
for toxins. And how to build a fire. 

> Something I didn't mention was that the original population would be
> deaf/mutes communicating with sign language.  Presumably their descendents
> would be physically able to speak but would still only communicate by sign.
> I'm guessing it would be more than a few generations before speech might
> emerge again independently as it were.

It might take a *lot* longer than you think. I know that there are
documented cases of sighted children raised by blind parents. The
children are physically capable of seeing, but never *develop* the
ability. I'd not be at all surprised to find that hearing children
raised by a deaf community won't learn to pay attention to noises.

In both cases, the parents *can't* receive the stimulus, and they'll
never try "training" it. An example from the blin parent/sighted child
bit was that the parents would always be saying "listen to the birdie,
and never call attention to anything visual (because they can't see it).

It'd easily take a few generations before the adults realized that they
all shared this odd sense. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 09:14:15 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Beware of the Stobor (was: Re: Annic Nova)

In mail you write:

> Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk wrote:
>> 
> <<snip>>
>> 
>> Black Ice then said:
>> 
>> >If you haven't read it yet, read _Tunnel in the Sky_, by Robert
>> >Heinlein.  It deals with a school survival trip gone wrong....
>> 
>> Yes, this was one of my favourite books in my youth  I just loved it so it
>> may have been in the back of my mind.  (I haven't read it for a while, but
>> would probably enjoy it just as much now).  What *was* the name of the
>> 'creature' they were told to look out for which they spent ages puzzling
>> over what it actually was.
>
> **spoiler alert**
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Stobor.  I especially liked the scene when they were rescued, and found
> out that their teacher had used the word "stobor" simply to concretize
> the unknown threat of local fauna.  When one of the students said
> something to the effect of "Then there aren't any stobor?", the teacher
> responded that of course, there are stobor, since the students had built
> stobor traps to protect their settlement from some local critter.... 

Something a friend pointed out that 'd totally missed for *years*.

"Stobor" is "robots" spelled backwards!

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:56:56 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova 

> >> as long as the worst canon-breaking bits (no LH2 requirement, primarily)
> >> are either fixed or firmly pidgeon-holed as curiousities, not practical or
> >> useful for the Imperium in general.
> >
> >Canon-breaking?  This is the earliest canon, from the first instance of a
> >canonical storyline book, JTAS No.1, Loren's baby.  So now, twenty years
> >later, we need to "fix" it?  
> 
> "Required Items
> 
> "An operating jump drive requires several basic components which, when
> operating together, make jump possible.
> "Power Source: Jump uses large amounts of energy to rip open the barriers
> between normal space and jump space. Normally, only a fusion reactor can
> supply this energy. Some alternate systems make use of solar power
> generators (which operate much more slowly), or anti-matter power systems
> (rare and very high-tech)."
> 
> "Jumpspace", Marc W. Miller, JTAS#24, p. 35. 
> 
> "Annic Nova", JTAS#1, pp. 16-32, was also by Mr. Miller.
> 
> I concede the point, and withdraw the request.
> 
> I must admit to being totally at a loss at this point for why anyone would
> waste so much economically useful space on LH2 tankage, if it is not a
> requirement for jump (the only mention in the article is related to power
> production).

Because the energy density needed in the accumulators is so great, it's 
beyond TL15?

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 15:00:37 -0400
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova (canon) 

> If I were to use that today I would make a final resolution possible.
> Back then I kept waiting for GDW to follow up wit an origin and was
> afraid of spoiling it. It seemed to me tha it and Victoria were leading
> to something. This wasn't a wild idea, since MOST of the stuff GDW did
> as adventures all seemed inter-related in some grand plan. Sigh, I guess
> that's what I miss the most today... Buying JTAS ans the adventure books
> was kind of like following a BIG series, couldn't wait for the mext
> installment to show up!

Yeah, those were the days, eh?

*DAMN* I wish they'd come back...

Keven

- -- 
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure
                                                     In Reavers' Deep

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:08:37 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)

> Get a tracer style which is only visible from behind the bullet.

This is possible? I only have experience with country style firearms and
ammo, not military, although I have done some research for gaming purposes.
Could one of the military types on the list post a general overview of
state-of-the-art firearms/ammo and near future extrapolations? I am sure
that we non-military folks could learn alot. I'm not talking energy weapons,
just projectile, both chemically propelled and Gauss. These last few posts
have both been very informative and entertaining, as well as showing me I
know less than I thought I did. 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 14:14:22 -0500
From: Eris reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

 
> > BTW, weapons' experts...what's with this sidearm pistol shooting
> > that seems to be so popular on TV/movies these days?  Is there *any*
> > advantage that you can see to it?

Sheese, I ask a simple, throw-away question and it generates 20+
messages  There's just no accounting for what you guys will respond to
is there. <g>  Of course, I know it's a Hollywierdism and it is in a
feedback loop with the "gangsta" stuff, and it's mostly to "look cool"
and provide a visual separation between the Cops and Robbers.

Interestingly enough, I did see mention of some possibly valid reasons
for holding the pistol sidearmed amongst the mass of posts. 

The one that got me thinking was the comment about dominate eye and
hand.  See, I'm very righthanded, but left eye dominate. I've *never*
been able to sight a rifle properly without closing, or covering, my
left eye and with a pistol I tend to sight along the side of the
barrel rather than with the sight, ie, I am a *poor* shot. However,
when someone mentioned turning the pistol over, I tried it...guess
what...the sight lines up with my left eye! That lead me to consider
that as a kid when we were playing cowboys I always favored the cross
draw holster and was snap firing sidearmed...sighting with the left
eye.  It's still not the best way to fire a pistol, of course, but I
can see it for cross dominate eye folks, and maybe for the firing two
guns bit...one up and one over.  (Not that *my* wrists could take it.
;)

Another reason that made sense was the intimidation bit.  Generally,
that means looming over someone, holding them down, literally "leaning
on them" with fist raised to strike a blow. Put gun in fist and it's
sideways...makes some sort of sense. Fits "gangsta" mode. 

Lastly, the fact that the recoil from a sidearmed position would tend
to spray bullets across a plain actually makes sense in some sorts of
combat. If you want to put a number of bullets into a group spread
across your front and you aren't really aiming, just pointing and
rapid firing I can see where having the recoil scatter your shots
around might be desirable.

As for actually firing two pistols at once (notice I didn't say
rifles, smgs, machine pistols, or *heaven*forbid* shotguns) I *know*
the only reason for that is filling the air with lead as fast as
possible and hoping something will stick. Or failing that at least to
make everyone duck for cover. <g>

Eris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 11:58:13
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)

At 11:13 AM 10/8/1999 -0700, you wrote:
>Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:
>
>> Of course now EVERYONE knows you have run empty...:-)
>
>Get a tracer style which is only visible from behind the bullet.

No such animal.  The bloody things are hard enough to see in anything but
pitch black night.

- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:08:54
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)

At 12:55 PM 10/8/1999 -0300, you wrote:

>        Maybe while we're talking about it, is a "tracer" round any less
>effective a vest-puncher than a standard ball?  One of my CP2020 players
>keeps a drum of assorted-color tracers for situations where he wants the
>gangers to understand just how much lead is flying around.  I've just always
>treated a tracer as "same as ball, but visible" in terms of penetration,
>accuracy, etc.  Is the accurate?

There is a slight loss of penetration and accuracy, but unless you are
playing a hyper-anal system like Phoenix Command it's not enough to make a
real difference in game terms.

"Assorted colors"?  Last time I checked, they came in red and green.
Tracers are useless for signalling.  For one thing, they are just as fast
as a speeding bullet!  You have to be looking in just the right place.

Perhaps your player would like a selection of star cluster rockets and
colored smoke grenades?  The clusters burst at about 150 feet (45m) and
break into three brightly colored flares (red, violet or green).  The
flares aren't bright enough to provide any sort of useful illumination, but
are visible for miles.  Each star cluster lasts about fifteen seconds.

The *woosh* these little rockets make (each one is about the size of a
rolled up magazine and weighs about 1lb (.45kg)) is indistinguishable from
that made by the much brighter illumination flare.  Lots of fun to be
caught in the middle of an empty draw and hear one of these things go off.


- -- 

Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.
gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html

TravGeekCode: 
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da
         

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:20:23 -0700
From: "Thing" <gduke@orca.esd114.wednet.edu>
Subject: RE: Annic Nova

I just had the thought that an Annic Nova style jump drive system would be
great as a backup in case of a misjump into a hex with no refueling
possibilities.  Just simply deploy some collapsible solar collectors and
wait.  As long as you have the life support available, or cryo bays and
could program the computer to jump and recharge if necessary to get you
somewhere.

Of course if you where in a hex without a star, the charging time would
likely be very long.


G.D.D.
======
"Leisure time is that five or six hours when you sleep at night." - George
Allen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:23:14
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova 

At 02:56 PM 10/8/1999 -0400, you wrote:
 
>> I must admit to being totally at a loss at this point for why anyone would
>> waste so much economically useful space on LH2 tankage, if it is not a
>> requirement for jump (the only mention in the article is related to power
>> production).
>
>Because the energy density needed in the accumulators is so great, it's 
>beyond TL15?

Because it's more conveinent?  Think about it.. everyday people willingly
strap themselves into air craft and hurtle towards their destinations at
hundreds of miles and hour at altitudes abopve the highest mountains.  Why?

It's easier than going by ground.

Perhaps solar charging takes far too long for any real commercial
operations, so people accept the limitations of the massive LHyd load.

(Forgive me if this is not making sense, but I'm rather medicated at the
moment.)
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                    -Adam West, as Batman 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:27:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com>
Subject: Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)

Douglas E. Berry writes:
> At 11:13 AM 10/8/1999 -0700, you wrote:
> >Sethkimmel@aol.com writes:
> >
> >> Of course now EVERYONE knows you have run empty...:-)
> >
> >Get a tracer style which is only visible from behind the bullet.
> 
> No such animal.  The bloody things are hard enough to see in anything but
> pitch black night.

I believe I've seen references to it for tank round tracers.  In any case, it should be viable at higher tech levels (not sure what tech the original discussion was at)

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 13:27:14 -0700
From: "Darren Sherbot" <dsherbot@rockies.net>
Subject: Re: Annic Nova

I have a copy of JTAS#1 NM for sale. Anybody interested?
And since everyone is on the topic...didn't anybody else notice the tiny
corpse? in a vacc suit floating prone in the bottom left corner of the JTAS
picture of Annic Nova?

Seaottre@hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 12:28:32 -0700
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

> The one that got me thinking was the comment about dominate eye and
> hand.  See, I'm very righthanded, but left eye dominate.

That post intrigued me as well, Jesse was the author, wasn't he? How common
is this cross-dominance? I have never heard of such a thing, but it brought
to mind the way I shoot. For firearms and bows I am right handed, but when I
shoot a wrist-rocket slingshot I am left-handed. When I first noticed this
quirk (actually a friend pointed it out) I tried to train myself to shoot
right-handed. I couldn't hit a tree that way, much less a ground squirrel.
Switched back to my left and could flip a squirrel at fifty paces.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 14:37:25 -0500 
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@lucent.com>
Subject: Now *This* Is Wild

One of the published adventures in DGP's Traveller mags
has "semi-uplifted" animals used for recon as part of a covert
ops team. One of the critters had an implant linked to its
eyes, I believe.

Well, guess what?


- --- quote ---

A Cat's Eye Marvel
by Leander Kahney 

3:00 a.m.  7.Oct.99.PDT
In a dramatic demonstration of mind
reading, neuroscientists have created
videos of what a cat sees by using
electrodes implanted in the animal's brain.

Garrett Stanley of Harvard, and Fei Li and
Yang Dan of the University of California,
Berkeley, were able to reconstruct in
startling detail scenes flashed before a
cat's eyes...

Having recorded patterns of firing as
various scenes were flashed before the
cat's eyes, the team was able to
reconstruct very closely what the animal
saw, which varied from people's faces to
scenes of a dark forest...

- --- end quote ---

The full article is at:
http://www.wired.com/news/news/technology/story/22116.html

Thanks, "Thing", for the headsup!

David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Oct 1999 15:42:12 -0400
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca>
Subject: RE: Survivor kids (Was: Annic Nova)

Timothy Collinson writes:
<snipped>
>I am right in thinking that breastfeeding acts as an
>(effective?) contraceptive aren't I?
<snipped>

	I think that it may reduce the odds of getting pregnant,
	but not to zero.  Getting only barely enough to eat is
	probably more effective at contraception.

Peez

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 12:43:22 -0700
From: "Shawn Campbell" <shawn@electricstitch.com>
Subject: Re: Missing TMLer?

That's me.

Shawn Campbell
shawn@electricstitch.com

>
> Does anyone know a current email for 'Shawn' who was last know (by me) at:
>
> electric-stitch@w-link.net
>
> TIA
>
> tc

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 15:48:59 -0400
From: "Sword Worlder" <swordworlder@clinic.net>
Subject: Re: Firing two guns at once

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella <xrp@sierratel.com>
> > The one that got me thinking was the comment about dominate eye and
> > hand.  See, I'm very righthanded, but left eye dominate.
>
> That post intrigued me as well, Jesse was the author, wasn't he? How
common
> is this cross-dominance? I have never heard of such a thing, but it
brought

Yo, right-handed, left-eyed dude here.  Mine is due to an astigmatism in my
right eye that caused me to rely on the left one (or so they said in
school).  The sight problem wasn't caught until the sixth grade, but I was
set in my ways by then.  One thing it does cause trouble with is baseball
batting.  The cross-dominance makes it very hard for me to hit right-handed
if I "keep my eye on the ball".  I hit the ball more often batting left, but
very little power.  I learned to switch up depending on what kind of hit was
needed at the time.


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The TRAVELLER Domain
http://www.downport.com
Colin Michael, WebDev

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 16:04:49 -0000
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net>
Subject: Re: The Gangsta Shooting Stance

- -----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Friday, October 08, 1999 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: The Gangsta Shooting Stance


>> that fashion. Accuracy is really not an issue in these situations.
>
>well, sort of...witness all the drive-bys and gang shootings that end up
>with people four blocks away getting killed while the gangsta's stand
>ten feet away from each other blazing away and missing. :-/


Keep in mind, I wasn't defending anything, just explaining how the stance
came to be.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:55:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Ammo Conservation ( was Re: Firing two guns at once)

In mail you write:

> At 08:18 AM 10/8/1999, you wrote:
>>At 11:45 AM 10/8/1999 -0300, you wrote:
>>>
>>>        My players all make sure the last round in a mag or wheel is a
>>>bright blue tracer.  When the tracer goes out the pipe, they take cover and
>>>reload.  Usual SOP is for everyone to fire at the target the chap with the
>>>dry gun was engaged with, just to keep the heat off while he shovels ammo.
>>>They picked this trick up in my Cyberpunk game and ported it over to
>>>Traveller ('scuse the pun).
>>>        It works.
>>
>>Make that the third from last round.  That way, you can have two shots to
>>help you get to cover to reload.  US Army SOP.
>
>         Hi, Doug!
>         Is *that* where it comes from?
>         I had them run into a CAT Squad in my first TU, and I had all the
> bad-guys doing this.  The players caught on in a hurry...  I must have read
> that in a military rag and forgotten about it.  Thanks very much.
>
>         Maybe while we're talking about it, is a "tracer" round any less
> effective a vest-puncher than a standard ball?  One of my CP2020 players
> keeps a drum of assorted-color tracers for situations where he wants the
> gangers to understand just how much lead is flying around.  I've just always
> treated a tracer as "same as ball, but visible" in terms of penetration,
> accuracy, etc.  Is the accurate?

Doug can probably give a better answer, but as far as I know, a tracer
is a normal round with a *small* hollow in the base opf the bullet. The
hollow is filled with the same sort of stuff you use in colored flares.
It doesn't have to be a lot, because you don't really *care* if it
burns more than second or two. 

So it should pentrate as normal. With a slight chanche of igniting
anything flammable it lodges in (like a kevlar vest :-)

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 11:59:22 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Annic Nova (longish)

In mail you write:

>> Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:43:45 PST
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
>> 
>> >> Not to cover the 'crime', to get rid of the plague infested ship.
>> >
>> > If the idea was to get rid of the ship, why not just send it into a star?
>> 
>> Simple. With the avialable thrust, that'd take a long time. And even a
>> *slight* error would result in merely a close pass. Likely not close
>> enough to destroy the ship.
>
> I don't buy this.  Ignoring orbital effects (a fair simplification at an
> acceleration of .1 g) and presuming the ship starts at rest 1 AU from the
> star, and applying t = sqrt(2d/a): 
>
>   t = sqrt(2*(1.5e11 m)/(1 m/s^2))
>     = sqrt(3e11 s^2)
>     =~ 550,000 s
>     =~ 6 days
>
> ...in other words, far less than the linger time in each system if you try
> to 'lose' it using the random-walk-away model.  And with active control
> and constant .1 g thrust, I can't picture an autopilot more sophisticated
> than a C64 (and not built by LockMart) missing the star. 

If the ship is "at rest" with respect to the star, you don't *need* to
do anything. It'll fall into the star (eventually, as I recall, free
fall from Earth orbit to the Sun is around 90 days).

But if you are in orbit or moving at typical Traveller "transit"
speeds, you'll have a *big* vector at right angles to the line joining
you and the star. You have to kill all but a fraction of that
"sideways" velocity, or it'll turn your attempt to hit the star into an
orbit around it (or just a clean miss). 

6 days at 40 km/sec (typical *solar* orbital velocity) gives about 22
*million* km side displacement. You'd miss the star by quite a bit. And
the Autopilot is not going to *let* you set the ship on an impact
course for a star. 

The sun has a radius of about 7e5 km. So to hit it with a travel time
of 550,000 seconds, you need to restrict your side velocity to less than
1.3 km/sec. Actually, you could have a bit more than that, because
we're ignoring the sun's gravity. But not all *that* much more. 

At the end of 550,000 seconds at .1g, you'll be travelling at 550,000
m/sec. 1.3 km/sec is about .2% of that. So you have to have your
velocity vector accurate to about 2 parts in 1000. For six days...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1173
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